Product Marketing Adventures

Elle: When I was in business

school, shout out to c Davis.

We spent a lot of time

talking about growth and the

golden rule was this, if you

wanna grow meaningfully, you

either need to sell more of

your current product to more

people, or you need to build

something new that brings new

customers through the door.

Now, yeah, there are more

jargony ways to say that,

but that was the gist of it.

So the second path, new

products, new markets.

That is where things get

really interesting because

you get to innovate and build

something and do all the

marketing and the positioning

and the messaging and the

go-to-market strategy.

Just all of it,

and it's so fun.

And today's conversation

will be a story about

a product that I bet

you've all seen before.

If you don't have one

in your kitchen, it's.

Ember.

Now you've probably seen

their smart mugs at Starbucks

or Williams Sonoma, the

beautifully designed ones

that keep your coffee exactly

the right temperature.

But Ember isn't just a coffee

mug kitchen brand anymore.

They moved into a completely

new category chasing

a different audience.

With a different

brand new product.

Today's episode is all about

how they did it and what

the product marketers can

learn from it, and today

is an extra special episode

because I have two amazing

guests instead of one, let

me tell you all about them.

First up is Daniel Alvarez.

He has led product strategy

at companies like Ember, Dole,

and Jacuzzi, and brings a

rare mix of technical depth

and business savvy with a

background in engineering

and an MBA to match Daniel's.

Built everything from

connected hardware to CPG

products and always with

a sharp eye on market

trends and user experience.

He's one of those pmms

who gets the customer,

the tech and the business.

Also with us is the

amazing Connor O'Neill.

Connor has spent over

a decade shaping brand

stories and partnerships.

That actually connect with

luxury customers from Ember

to product, red Babylist

and Jaguar Land Rover.

She's known for her ability

to turn real customer insight

into campaigns that feel

personal, not performative,

whether it's launching a new

product or evolving a brand.

Connor brings clarity, voice,

and meaning to the work.

Daniel and Connor,

welcome to the show.

Daniel: Be here.

Elliot, it's great to

be talking to you today.

Connor: Thank you so

much for having us.

Elle: Yay.

Okay.

I'm so excited.

Let's just dive right in.

All right, so market

expansion is one of the most

powerful levers a business

can pull anytime it's on

the table, product marketers

should definitely be in

the middle of it because.

Expansion isn't just a

business decision, it's

go-to-market challenge.

and if you're a product

marketer, you know that,

that means audience, new

product, new playbook, and

all Of that is in our lane.

I'm so excited to

bring this to life with

an Ember case study.

So tell us what was happening

at Ember when your team

realized it was time to

break into a new market.

Daniel, why don't you

kick us off?

Daniel: Yeah.

Interestingly enough, we've

been working on a product

plan for a new product

in our drinkware line and

all agreed that it just

wasn't really working.

We had the features, we had

the customer insight, but the

product development costs were

going to be too high, and we

just couldn't see a vision

of this product meeting.

The quality that we had

worked so hard to build in

our brand because it was such

a big portion of the launch

plan for the following year.

We had to find an alternative.

We decided to take a step

back and investigate another

direction that seemed

promising, but needed

some work and validating

before we move forward.

Connor: Yeah.

The funny thing is Ember has

made massive ships into new

markets with the launch of the

self warming baby bottle cold

cube, which is a remarkable

like cold chain shipping

container for pharmaceuticals.

In this case, our goal

was still to create a new

product that would help Ember

move into new categories.

But we were also using

proven technology so we

could go to market quickly

and meet our goals.

In a way, we were kind of

treading both paths that

you mentioned earlier.

At the same time, it was

critical to expand our

customer base, but also we

needed to meet the needs

of our existing customer to

have an effective launch,

we needed to sell more.

To more people and do it

fast with limited resources,

all while attracting

those new customers easy.

Right?

Elle: Not at all

Connor: No,

Elle: specifically bringing

in new customers without

cannibalizing existing product

lines or, spiking costs.

Totally.

Daniel: exactly.

So in that vein, we had to

build a cross-functional team.

We dug into some consumer

research and really

looked for white space.

We had a goal to marry the

sleek design we were known

for in the premium finishes

that we were discovering

with proven technology.

Nothing over-engineered.

So in doing so, we decided

to build off the current

product platform of our

existing technology and create

the 16 ounce Ember Tumbler.

Connor: And crucially, we

wanted to maintain brand

integrity, like Daniel and

I both value consistency

across the product line.

Even with ember's, very

diverse offerings, it

was paramount that we.

Always honor the brand.

Here we are like able to

meet the company's needs

while addressing the USPS

that current customers have

been asking for, for some

time, and still attract

the requested customers.

It was an effort, but it led

to ember's most successful

product launch ever.

In fact, we actually tripled

launch day sales over

our previous bestseller.

Elle: That's amazing.

I absolutely love that

customer-centric innovation.

okay, so as in with all of

my episodes, let's break

this down into a playbook

for product marketers.

Say, I wanted to do something

similar in my role today.

Obviously not, you know.

Build a beautifully designed,

connected Tumbler, but

expanding into a new market.

Like I want to, work with my

product team, work with my,

my design team, expand my

market into, you know, new

audiences with a new product.

Walk me through what the steps

would be and kicking it off.

What is step one?

Connor: Oh, well, step one

for us was digging deep

into consumer analytics

and market research.

Not just who they are,

but what they care about.

We've been using Google

Meta Analytics as

well as survey data.

Through a test to better

understand our current

customer's interests.

Our original intent was to

use this to create a three

year strategy plan, post

pandemic, and create the

product that Daniel actually

mentioned about earlier.

But this information plus

post-purchase surveys and

customer insights that

we pulled from CX were

invaluable when it came

to creating the Tumbler.

And one of the things that we

learned that our customers,

actually had brand overlap

with companies like REI,

uh, Columbia, Patagonia.

They were outdoor enthusiasts

or at least, you know, they

had outdoor aspirations.

Elle: That is so interesting.

Okay, so let's talk

more about the data.

not that I have hard

experience, but just from

what I have learned from

others, it can be so hard

to get data from consumers.

So.

Tell us the secret.

How do you do it?

Connor: I don't know if I

have the secret, but this is

always really difficult for

brands and getting quality

consumer insights is only

actually like getting harder.

A lot of what you

can do depends on

the budget you have.

and a good relationship

with your meta and

Google Wrap, sorry.

Rep, uh, is.

An amazing starting point

as they can help you

decipher information from

their respective platforms.

Um, meta is helpful when it

comes to consumer behavior

through its social platform,

and it's a great place

to better understand user

preferences and trends

within specific communities.

Google, on the other hand,

utilizes the search data

and Google ads to discover

insights related to, uh, user

intent, local services, and

also high intent queries.

Additionally, like

I mentioned, you

can utilize surveys.

We did a few paid surveys,

through focus, mostly

focused on brand perception

and consumer behavior.

And the reason we did this

is it really gave us a

better understanding of our

existing customers and those

that either did or did not

know about our brand and

had never even purchased

an ember mug, for instance.

Uh, we now know that the

Ember consumer is more

likely to own a home.

they're more likely to have

children under the age of 18.

Of course we utilized those

post-purchase surveys and

actually Daniel scanned

like something like 60,000

customer experience tickets.

maybe that number is more

close to 6,000, but it

was a mess of tickets and

he actually consolidated

the requests and the

complaints and gave us

a much better picture of

the customer's needs and

what their wants were.

And.

All of this data was so

helpful because it helped

us to build, you know,

brand personas, for both

our current customers, but

also the future customers

we were trying to obtain.

Elle: I love this 60,000.

That is a lot

Daniel: was a lot of work.

A lot of time,

Connor: okay.

That was the real number.

Oh my gosh.

I thought I had misremembered

that wrong, but No,

Elle: I love it.

Okay.

Tell me more

about the surveys.

How is this implemented?

What kind of

questions did you ask?

How did you make sure.

that customers actually

took the survey and I guess

even before you did the

survey, did you know going

into this that you wanted

to introduce a Tumbler?

Connor: Well, our paid surveys

were done through a company

called a test and, um, they

were implemented on like a

quarterly basis so that we

could gauge which way the

needle was always moving.

so questions like.

Are more customers

aware of the Ember brand

compared to last month?

Is cold coffee still growing

in popularity over hot?

You can learn all

kinds of things from a

survey, for instance.

Uh, 70% of respondents at one

time said they drank at least

one cup of coffee a day, which

is actually pretty staggering.

And we also learned that

18 to 24 year olds are less

likely to choose hot drinks.

Not probably a surprise

to anyone here.

Elle: only one cup

of coffee a day.

Connor: or more, one

or more for sure.

Elle: Okay.

Connor: and we also learned

that Ember customers

had some of the most

diverse preferences.

And I mean, it's

not a shocker.

It seems like if you have a

mug that always keeps your

drinks hot, it's gonna lead

to more experimentation.

And let's see.

We also had post-purchase

surveys, so we sent those

via email and it was part of

a larger, like post-purchase

email flow, which is

really helpful to have.

Um, and we'd often offer a

discount on future purchases

when a survey was completed.

So that's one way to bring

people back, um, and make sure

those are actually completed.

and yes, as you mentioned,

we did know that we wanted

to introduce a Tumbler.

The surveys were vital

in shaping the usps.

and customers were just

like not subtle in their

request for a larger mug.

So we knew we wanted to offer

something larger, and because

of Google Analytics, we had a

sense of that our customer was

the type that liked to travel.

So we wanted a Tumbler that

could meet the needs of the

everyday errand runner as well

as an early morning hiker.

Elle: Yeah.

Okay.

Hold on.

Quick question

for clarification.

What is a USP.

Connor: Unique selling point.

it's like a feature,

pretty much a feature,

but it could be anything.

It's a reason to

buy this product.

Like why is this

unique in the market?

Why does this meet

the consumers need?

and that's something that

we really, you know, Penn a

lot of attention on in order

to create those features.

How can we make

this different?

How can we make this

Elle: Oh, okay.

That is very helpful.

so in regards to the

development of the Tumbler,

were you still defining the

product details or like what

stage were you at in terms

of product development?

Daniel: so there are a

few different stages we

go through in our process.

Um, and at this point we

are pretty early on in

the process, so we like

to front load a lot of the

work ahead of time so we can

ensure that we're getting

a good product before any

significant investment.

So that comes with a lot

of this research that

Connor's talking through.

and with Connor's data,

we were able to tell that

we were on the right path.

And having all this

information helps to define

that critical product

details that we're talking

about, the usps, uh, which

always makes it easier for

other teams to move quickly

Through that process, we

found it's really helpful

in that cross-functional

collaboration.

I.

Elle: Yeah.

Okay.

That's helpful.

And you, you mentioned moving

quickly in the process and

actually also reminds me

earlier in the conversation

when you were talking

about how you were trying

to move very quickly, um,

and how you landed on the,

Tumbler product itself.

I think that's a

really strong call out.

The time that you

had available, right?

Like the runway that you

had to expand into that

new market, can influence

the decis, the decision

to like what the product

is that you create.

I'm sure you have a plethora

of use cases that technology

like Ember could be used in.

So, I guess my point is it

sounds like for Ember and

for many other businesses

too, time was a very

important variable in the

consideration for like.

Selecting the use case to

apply or where you wanna

apply your technology.

When you're in that like

planning strategy mode,

would you say that's that's

Daniel: Exactly.

I mean, whenever we're working

with a consumer product

company like Ember, really

you're racing towards a ton

of different, due dates.

So you've got holiday

timeframe, you've got

retail reset date.

So it's, it's always critical,

to look at that end date that

seemingly never changes, but

your time in developing always

shortened.

Connor: Yeah.

And

I was just gonna add to what

Daniel said is like you'll

have those, he mentioned

some like strong deadlines

that do not move, but you'll

also have shifting ones.

So you're, you're constantly

having to be kinda light

on your feet to address

new concerns that crop up.

Elle: and I bet for when

you have a physical.

item that you are

building, right?

It's probably not unimportant,

but maybe less important

when you're just working with

like software for example.

But if you're building

something physical, like

I work, I work at Cisco,

we build physical hardware

devices that obviously

we have to get things

manufactured and there's,

that has its whole timeframe

Connor: Yeah, Yeah,

You can't really make

a boat go faster.

Go ahead.

Daniel: I was gonna say, it's

constantly the handoff between

other teams where your work

then waterfalls into the next

team, into the next team,

and you're chasing deadlines

for manufacturing dates,

shipping dates, and just

global economic conditions.

Elle: Okay.

Brilliant.

All right, so quick recap.

again, if we're thinking

about expanding your market,

with a new product type, step

one is to, I guess before

even step one, you have

obviously identified a product

that you are going to use.

That is, maybe timing is

a variable that you use

to determine what that

product is going to be.

and then step one is to

analyze customer data.

Everything from sounds

like survey data.

We got some great tips

from you Connor there

to Google and metadata.

and then like the goal

here is to figure out

what your customers want,

what makes them tick,

what their interests are.

what happens after that?

When you do the analysis, what

do you do with those findings?

Does that lead

us into step two?

Daniel: Yeah, of course.

I mean, step two is

really important.

We always talk about this

as a, as a portion of

our product development

methodologies, our thought

process, which is building

that connection path from

where you are now to where

you need to go market-wide.

I. Uh, so for the Tumbler,

we had to fit it into our

drinkware line, but make sure

that it felt elevated and met

the needs of this new adjacent

customer that we'd identified

in the outdoor space so that

they continue to grow with

us as we develop into new

categories down the line.

So, through CMF, color

and material finish, uh,

mindful UX and aspirational

storytelling, we were able

to create something that felt

new, but attracted a different

customer while utilizing

our existing technologies.

Which in turn minimizes

risk and offers the same

trusted experience that

our brand was known for.

Connor: Yeah.

And just to add to that,

the idea is also to balance

innovation with practicality.

So one of the things we

knew was that our customers

wanted a bigger mug, which

is not a shock, I'm sure.

they want more.

And we knew a 16 ounce

workhorse with em.

Aesthetics, would make

both our existing and

future customers very happy.

Daniel: Exactly.

I think the key here is using

tech that we knew worked.

I mean, it let us scale

faster, lower costs, while

keeping margins really

healthy for our product

lines, which is always

important for every business.

We asked ourselves, what

could we do better for

our outdoor enthusiast

customers who really hadn't

known us all that well?

I mean, rough textures,

durable design,

interchangeable lids,

and a longer battery

life, all catered to

this outdoor lifestyle

that we had researched.

I mean, these features

really resonated and

helped drive the interest.

Elle: Wow.

Okay.

I love what you're saying

about attracting different

customers while utilizing

existing technologies

and balancing that with

innovation and practicality.

So how did that come into

play for storytelling?

I feel like there's

naturally lens.

So, well to that, so how

did you tell the story

other than of course,

like the beautiful product

featured you just mentioned,

like the rough textures

and the durable designs,

et cetera, all of that.

Like, was there anything

unique or special that

you did to engage with

your new customers?

Connor: Yeah, I

can speak to that.

Like for storytelling,

we literally went with

the big outdoors, at the

time, it seemed so simple.

It's our biggest mug, and

it's outdoor friendly.

But like it came together

really beautifully and

it was an aspirational

story for the customer.

We framed it around the

features so that it felt

like the Tumbler could take

you anywhere and you could

do anything with it, and

the campaign was Basically

designed to do exactly what

the product was, give our

current customer more and

attract a new audience.

It was about telling

stories that felt true to

the consumer, what they

were capable of, so that it

felt aspirational, like I

said, but still attainable.

Elle: I can totally

picture my, it's just

as you were speaking.

I can picture myself

Connor: Yeah, exactly.

Elle: being on the go.

with my kiddos in toe.

Okay, so back up a little

bit for me, because

obviously this is, you

know, has to be durable.

You mentioned

outdoorsy, et cetera.

Like what did

testing look like?

How did you get to beta

test with, with people?

I can imagine that being kind

of difficult for consumers,

but I mean, you tell

Daniel: I mean, luckily,

like we said, we used

a lot of the technology

that we were known for.

We had a lot of data to

leverage of our historic

products, but as soon as

we had a sample in our

hands, we took it out to

test with our employees

and our retail buyers.

I mean, anyone who was

a frequent buyer of a

Starbucks Grande drink

was the perfect tester.

We had a lot of people

really excited once we

told them about this.

and they were very happy

with the look and feel of

the product right away.

I mean, our team took

it on hikes and out to

Boulder, and the outdoors

and loved the ability to

just be durable on the go.

and our retail buyers

also loved how much it

offered to their customers.

They felt like it had a ton of

value into it and really spoke

and resonated to something new

that they were looking for.

and really felt happy about

the value that it provided.

Elle: How perfect.

Okay.

And then before you actually

launched, do you have,

obviously you, you did

the beta, you have the

storytelling and all of

this to put together, How

did you know that you had

a total hit in your hands?

Right?

You mentioned very early

in our conversation that it

was like, I don't remember

if you said it was like

a day one sellout, but

it was very successful.

did you expect those results?

Connor: I would say that we

hoped for the, those results.

Absolutely.

And we set

ourselves up for it.

So, a really great example to

give you sort of a timeframe

on this is it launched not

too long after the Pandemic.

I. and this is kind of where

people's heads were at, right?

Like outdoor activities

were on the rise, and I

think this product helped

to tap into the needs of

the consumer at that time.

we were leveraging the

sentiment through engaging

marketing collateral

that featured travel and

outdoor experiences in

a way that I think felt

both relatable and like I

mentioned, aspirational.

We put a lot of effort into

like a teaser campaign and

that prominently featured the

concept of this larger product

getting more out of life.

our tagline for the

campaign was Have a Grande.

and that alluded to the fact

that this was like the first

mug with the capacity to

hold a Starbucks 16 ounce

grande order and also a play

on like have a grand day.

so we were trying to make a

connection to this concept

of like on the go fun, right?

oh, I have to mention,

we had some really great

collaborations with

outdoor influencers, like

the Wander Diary, which

is a cold water swimmer.

and her name is, and I'm,

I'm gonna mispronounce

this, I'm sure of it, but

it was Zana VA, I believe.

And we also had a super

talented artist, Erin

Outdoors, and she creates like

these miniature landscapes

with, uh, it could be

vegetables and just like

everyday household items.

So we were just,

we were everywhere.

Elle: fun and beautiful.

Connor: was awesome.

You gotta check her

out on Instagram.

She's amazing.

And I think we were just sort

of pulling all the levers

being where we needed to be.

and we really built a lot of

anticipation in the launch.

And so I think that's what led

to, like you mentioned, it was

like the single best launch

day results we've had ever had

at Ember, which is amazing.

Daniel: It's incredible.

I mean, we still see

some of the content going

viral to this day, even

two years after the law.

Connor: yeah.

Oh, and I forgot about the

one that was shot from above

and she was like climbing

up a mountain and she used,

all these different props

to like kind of create an

outdoor landscape that she

was roaming through while

literally being on the floor.

Elle: That is so neat.

Oh my goodness.

How creative.

So I think this is so

creative and really speaks to.

Uh, it's a perfect example

for how to use teasers,

collaborations, influencers

to help build that

anticipation as of course

have you, as you pointed out.

But what a fun, pre-launch

tip.

I think B2B marketers

can take note.

And, both of you have

mentioned the word

aspirational so many times

in this conversation and.

I think the launch in and

of itself was aspirational.

Connor: Yeah, that's

a great call out.

We, uh, we were

shooting for the moon.

Elle: Yeah.

It's so beautiful.

Daniel: too.

Elle: Absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay.

Then after the launch,

what was the reaction

that you saw from your

Daniel: We've got, obviously

a very loyal customer group.

Very vocal customer group.

And really what we saw

from their perspective was

it really felt seamless.

I mean, they got a premium,

intuitive product that fit

right into their lifestyle,

whether they were commuting

on the subway, hiking,

uh, or working from home.

Most of the feedback we

got from people was, why

didn't this exist already?

They just day one.

Were so excited to see this

and we're very happy, and

felt like we listened to them,

which is, it's always amazing

to be able to sell that.

Connor: Yeah, and I think

obviously the proof is

in this, in the pudding.

Like we sold more units on

day one than we ever had,

so I think this product

clearly connected with the

consumer just as we had hoped.

Elle: I love it.

Okay, so, we talked a lot

about how this was a total

hit, and you just mentioned

that this was like the

biggest day one success

that you've ever had.

What do you think was

driving that success.

Connor: Honestly, like

just having a clear mission

and alignment across

all of our teams that.

You know, from engineering

id, product marketing, like

that's, I have to say, rare.

And we were all connected.

We had a very clear,

well-planned go to

market strategy.

And when you have a great

strategy and a great team

that is focused on, a goal

listening to your consumer,

like you just can't go wrong.

Daniel: And we've always

thought that coordination

between those different

functions and just

passionate people helped to

really drive that success.

I mean.

Day one, we were

hyper-focused on launching

this product, right?

We were looking at targeted

costs, our customers, and

the problem we were trying to

solve and really just nail it.

Uh, it mirrors what Connor

mentioned, which is that

we were empowered to focus

on that intersection of

customer needs and just the

business benefits, which

then you get buy-in from

the entire organization.

Elle: Awesome.

Okay.

So our whole conversation

has been about market

expansion and how to do it.

So of course we couldn't talk

about that without touching

go to market strategy.

so I'm glad you

called that out.

but okay.

Final question for you

both on this topic.

What advice do you have for

A PMM who wants to break

through in a crowded market?

Connor: I can

tackle that first.

Um, my feeling has

always been to not.

Face what's different,

but what's meaningful.

you never wanna underestimate

the power of showing

and not telling how this

fits into someone's life.

So instead of just

trying to be, the first

with something new and

gimmicky on the market, you

really wanna address what

customers want and need.

And that, I think, is

what really made this so

successful as we really

laid that groundwork.

Daniel: A hundred percent,

and I mean, don't feel

like you really need to

take large leaps to find

those new customers.

Really make purposeful

steps where you feel

like it makes sense for

your product to go into.

It's much easier for your

customers to follow along

with you in that journey

when they themselves can

tell where you're trying

to go with that product.

Elle: Yep.

It is not about standing out.

just for the sake of it.

It's about solving

something that people

actually care about.

So yes, of course

differentiation matters,

but it sounds like, and I

agree with this thinking

relevance is what actually

sticks.

Awesome.

Okay.

so, that's the close of

that segment and, it's time

to transition to our next

segment, which is so much fun.

This is the

messaging critique.

So a quick shout

out to my listeners.

This is the part where

we as product marketing

experts get to analyze.

Real world messaging

and my guests get

to pick the company.

but before we do that, let me

set some quick ground rules,

just for new listeners, and

Connor and Daniel for you two.

So after you guys reveal.

The company.

I want to know one thing

that you love about the

messaging, what's working

or maybe what makes the

product stand out and then,

one thing you wish the PMM

would've done differently.

maybe make the messaging

clearer, stronger.

More impactful.

And then finally, where could

the product marketer iterate

and take it to the next level?

Is there any creative

campaign or content that

they can think about?

so without further

ado, uh, tell us what

company you picked.

Connor: Let's talk

about or ring.

I think they've done an

incredible

job.

evolving.

What, from what you could

misconstrue as a niche

wellness tracker into this

full blown lifestyle product.

Yes.

Elle: is lifestyle.

Yeah.

I love that.

Pick.

Okay, so for those of you

who don't know, aura is

a super sleek, smart ring

that tracks things like

deep sleep and activity.

this is one near to my heart.

I have spent so much time

in the Internet of Things

world in my career, so

I'm, pretty well aware of.

Connected devices

and wearables.

So, okay.

Who do you guys see as the

target audience for this one?

For like a connected wearable

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, and

they're really going, um, for

accessibility to the average

person, just someone who cares

about making health conscious

decisions in their life.

And you can really see that

play out in their imagery,

which makes it clear that

no one is excluded and that

health isn't just for elite

athletes, which I think.

You know, the last 10 years

might have delved into

that type of messaging.

Uh, it really sets them

apart from a lot of

their competition while

widening their appeal.

I mean, we talk about finding

those new customers and

growing that customer base.

That's really what

they're doing here.

I.

Elle: Yes.

Okay.

I totally agree.

So I'm gonna pull up

their website now so we

can start to dig into the

actual like messaging and

storytelling that they do.

For those of you listeners

who are following along, I.

would go to aura ring.com.

That's O-U-R-A-R-I-N g.com.

okay, so Connor, Daniel,

what do you guys think

about their messaging?

Connor: I think what I really

like about them is that

they're focused on benefits,

not just features, which

we talked about earlier.

so for them it's like

knowing your body better

is the hook, uh, and then

their features can come

out of that larger message,

and that larger benefit

that's real to the consumer.

it speaks to personal

empowerment and not

just text specs.

Elle: Yep.

Oh gosh.

Text back gross.

Uh, I don't even,

oh, ugh, I don't like

that In B2B marketing.

I'm like, God,

this out of here.

This is for only

later someone else.

Okay.

Um, I can totally see how

that would resonate with a

health conscious person, but

hang on, I, have to comment

on something on the homepage.

So huge letters.

They're beautiful letters.

Very beautiful font, but

huge letters on the homepage

says, give us the finger.

I mean, it's funny

for, for like a ring.

I know it's a little, um.

cheesy for a ring wearable,

but it's eye catching.

It's funny, but

it doesn't Really?

match the brand that

they've, at least the brand

that they've presented as

they presented it so far.

So what do you guys

think about that tagline?

Connor: I actually

think it's pretty good.

And I mean, my guess here is

that they, like we did, uh,

identified a new customer

that they wanted to attract.

it's funny, yes.

But it also reads as

empowering and I think

it could, and I am sure

that they're hoping

for this go viral.

Like it feels so Gen Z.

And I think maybe that's like

what they're aiming to do.

They're aiming to

appeal to like younger

demographics right now.

Daniel: Yeah, definitely an

interesting choice for sure.

Especially for a campaign.

I mean, they may be wanting

to move in a direction that

Connor mentioned, and the

only thing I can say is that,

you know, they could really

lean into it and commit.

I mean, if it goes viral

and starts to get that

wide appeal, I mean,

have a photo campaign to

match, maybe have people.

Hope flipping off with

their ring finger to

show a bit more attitude.

I mean, that way it might hit

on that kind of edginess, but,

you know, still be resonating

with their current customer.

Elle: I really like that.

I feel like Ooh, we're,

we're getting ahead into,

into the messaging critique,

which is totally fine.

I will say though, for that

creative campaign, I love it.

I wish they would have used a

imagery of more Gen Z looking

people

Connor: it's like,

yeah, and sometimes you have

to do this like your brand.

It can't just be stationary.

It can't be stagnant.

You have to make these changes

and, and maybe this is that

small walk to, you know,

maybe it's not featuring Gen

Z, but it speaks a little

bit to them, and so they're

able to kind of like meet

both at the same time.

It's hard to know what's

going on in their heads.

Honestly, I.

Elle: Yeah, totally.

Okay, so what do you

guys think they could,

you wish they would've

done differently?

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, I

mean from a product focused

perspective, I think I'd

like to see them lay the

groundwork in branching out

into alternative products.

I mean, they're doing really

well within this space,

growing a lot, growing

fast, uh, and there's

clearly a desire for this

type of health initiative

that feels inclusive.

So I'd maybe look at.

Setting up ways where people

can support your messaging

and brand after they've

bought into the ring, you

know, more accessory products

or moving into something

as a adjacent market.

Elle: Totally a, a product

expansion, dare we say.

Daniel: Exactly.

Elle: Yeah.

it sounds like their product

marketing team and their

product team for that

matter, should listen to this

podcast and get a head start.

Connor: I hope they do.

Elle: it's a great call out

and it's just so interesting

because to your point,

it's product expansion in

maybe multiple ways, right?

Like product expansion

from the sense of just

using storytelling, and

highlighting different.

Maybe features and benefits

of the product to reach

that Gen Z audience.

And then also on the

product side, Daniel,

from your perspective,

like there's a market

expansion opportunity there

too, so very interesting.

Okay.

I know we kind of got

into this a little bit

already, but how would you

take this to the level?

Connor: I think I would

actually just start working

on creating community, giving

your existing customers,

yeah, a reason to come

back to you as a brand

is always good as well.

so I definitely consider

partnering with some other

brands and maybe the health

and wellness space in a

way that integrates your

offerings and promotes

the lifestyle that you

and your customers value.

Elle: I love that and

maybe there's, some tips or

lessons to learn from how

ember leveraged influencers

and community outside the

customer community, but maybe

community in the sense of

here are other vendors or.

Individuals or whoever

who have the same

spirit and, aspirations

I feel like it's our

Connor: Yeah.

100%.

Yeah.

And if they're going for

that younger customer or

consumer like that just

makes so much more sense too.

Elle: It really does.

I love it now.

Okay.

well shout out to

the Aura PMM team.

You guys have created

such a powerful product

and super sleek brand.

we're all taking notes.

I. okay.

So before we go, I like to

wrap up all of my episodes

with a gratitude moment,

and say thank you so much.

Daniel and Connor, thank

you for your willingness

to share your knowledge

and your expertise and your

experiences with the product

marketing community today.

It's been incredible.

Connor: It's been a,

it's been a pleasure.

Thank you so much

for having us.

Daniel: Thank you so much.

I mean, you've been an

amazing host and so easy

to talk to, so really

Elle: talk to, so I really

appreciate us Of course.

Yay.

what I've found in my

career is that, it's the

pmms around me, people like

yourselves and other guests

that I've had on, on the

podcast and mentors, and.

Everyone in between who have

shaped me into being a strong

product marketer, and I know

it's no different for everyone

else, so I am dying to know.

We'd all love to know.

Please tell us in the

spirit of gratitude, who do

we have to think to shape

you guys as marketers?

Daniel: I mean, I have to

give a shout out to our

VP of Global Marketing at

Ember, uh, Shannon Shapiro,

who was our fearless

leader during that time.

She started a number about

a year after we joined, and

right away you could tell

she was a quality mentor.

I mean, every challenge

that came her way, it seemed

to just be easily solved.

And her intuitions about

customer insights, marketing

strategies, campaigns, they

always turned out right.

I mean, she really made sure

that we had the tools we

needed to succeed and always

advocated on our behalf.

As far as leaders go,

she nails it with heart,

dedication, loyalty.

Connor: I like,

could not agree more.

I mean, she just has

this innate ability to

know what her team needs.

And she always seemed to

manage with this really

light touch that gave you

the sense that she, she

just super trusted you.

And that's like, that's

hard to find honestly.

And God forbid there

was a problem, And

there always is, right?

But she was so cool and

collected about anything,

and she just works with you

to solve whatever problem.

It gets sorted out and I

just, I feel like I've learned

so much working with her.

Elle: Oh, that's so sweet.

What a special

shout out, Shannon.

You have some fans.

Thank you, Shannon.

Daniel: Always.

Elle: okay.

And lastly, what's, what's

up next for you guys?

I mean, where can our audience

find out more if they wanted

to keep learning from you?

Connor: Well, as you can

imagine from what you've

heard, um, like both

Daniel and I are just super

passionate about consumer

products and we've had so

much fun working together at

Ember, you know, launching

products, developing

long-term brand strategies.

It really inspired us to

continue working together

as much as we could.

So we started our own product

marketing consulting agency.

Daniel: We couldn't get

enough of working together

and coordinating on these.

So, it's called Rebel

Horizon and we've really

had such a great experience

bringing this to life.

Um, we both really live

for building strategies

and want to help share that

knowledge that seems to just

be hidden out there, you

know, especially for small

to medium sized companies

looking to improve their

product and brand strategies.

We wanna be that

resource for them.

Connor: 100%.

Elle: this.

Congratulations to you.

both.

That's incredible.

well, if there's anyone out

there looking for a smart

and creative duo to help

take your product story to

the next level, Connor and

Daniel are your people.

Okay.

And with that, um, I wanna

turn over to our listeners.

Thank you.

all for joining us

on this adventure.

I hope today's conversation,

has left you inspired and

energized and ready to take

the next bold step in your

own product marketing journey.